Author Topic: Climate Change and CO2?  (Read 18182 times)

Offline Tj

  • Moderator
  • The Servant
  • *****
  • Posts: 14234
    • View Profile
    • True  Results - People Change for Good
    • Email
Climate Change and CO2?
« on: March 09, 2007, 03:11:20 PM »
Ended up have an impromptu two hour coaching call with a friend who was drowning on dry land last night and missed most of the programme on last nights UK TV. I think it was about statistics and theories that show that our current beliefs about CO2's effect on climate change is infact bollocks and it's part of a plan by the West to stop the East growing.

Hmm.

Sad thing is that you can almost believe the last part.

Anyone watch it?

Newshound?

Scientists and Poloticians certainly love to cause some great arguments in the pub and on websites don't they?

The next thing is that someone will tell me that eating meat and dairy produce and drink coffee is healthy.

...Oh no! Tell me I didn't start that up again???? PLEASE. :-X




   
"Deep inside you know it's right to lean towards the light"

Tj Sundown
Leaning towards the Starlight

Offline Alan

  • The Newshound
  • Cast Of Thousands
  • ******
  • Posts: 4551
    • View Profile
Re: Climate Change and CO2?
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2007, 08:14:42 PM »
I didn't watch it but I think it was bollocks - there is a large scientific consensus now that we are responsible, and believe me if the oil companies and Bush could undermine this consensus with counter arguments they would.

This programme sounded to me like the PR stunts of the tobacco lobby back in the 70's, and as such it is dangerous as it encourages people to continue in their wasteful ways...

The botto line is:

- If there is even the slightest risk that the Global Warming theories are correct then we should moderate our behaviour - and sadly the theories are looking correct...

- Even if we are not responsible for Global Warning we still need to conserve fossil fuels as they will run out, particularly now that Asia is industrialising and a further +2.5 billion people will want an American-style of living (American accounts for +25% of all CO2 output). So even if man-made global warning is bollocks then avoidance measures will still have delivered good benefits.

In short the programme looked to be so much hot air and worse than this it's message I think was a dangerous one.

Incidently I also think that the green fuels, favoured by Bush, are also bollocks - to grow the crops needed to provide the biofuel means more rainforests chopped down, more chemical fertilisers, and more C02 emitting activity to farm the land (tractors, logistics etc)

Alan

Offline Tj

  • Moderator
  • The Servant
  • *****
  • Posts: 14234
    • View Profile
    • True  Results - People Change for Good
    • Email
Re: Climate Change and CO2?
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2007, 11:10:10 PM »
Told you! It's one hell of a debate down the pub.

Did anyone watch it?

"Deep inside you know it's right to lean towards the light"

Tj Sundown
Leaning towards the Starlight

Offline Uli

  • Moderator
  • The Servant
  • *****
  • Posts: 9770
    • View Profile
Re: Climate Change and CO2?
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2007, 10:02:02 AM »
Scientists are probably right when saying that climate changes have happened in the past without human beings involved. However the speed of global warming currently points to us being at least co-responsible. Even if not, we still should cut down on pollution and Co2 Emissions and all simply because it has effect on environment and all that...  ::)
Politicians seem to use it for more taxes, rules and regulations (exactly what we need, or not?). In Germany they're telling people to spend their holidays in the country and not fly abroad. Yeah - and for years they supported airports and airlines and the car industry while nearly ruining the rail...  :(
Just around the corner and miles away...

Offline Mrs Fleagle

  • Moderator
  • Cast Of Thousands
  • *****
  • Posts: 1684
    • MSN Messenger - aliensathome@hotmail.com
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Climate Change and CO2?
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2007, 10:05:04 PM »
This article about the programe in the Independant is interesting  ;)

Climate change: An inconvenient truth... for C4

This expert in oceanography quoted in last week's debunking of the Gore green theory says he was 'seriously misrepresented'
By Geoffrey Lean, Environment Editor
Published: 11 March 2007
It was the television programme that set out to show that most of the world's climate scientists are misleading us when they say humanity is heating up the Earth by emitting carbon dioxide. And The Great Global Warming Swindle, screened by Channel 4 on Thursday night, convinced many viewers that it is indeed untrue that the gas is to blame for global warming.

But now the programme - and the channel - is facing a serious challenge to its own credibility after one of the most distinguished scientists that it featured said his views had been "grossly distorted" by the film, and made it clear that he believed human pollution did warm the climate.

Professor Carl Wunsch, professor of physical oceanography at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology said he had been "completely misrepresented" by the programme, and "totally misled" on its content. He added that he is considering making a formal complaint.

A Channel 4 spokesman said: "The film was a polemic that drew together the well-documented views of a number of respected scientists to reach the same conclusions. This is a controversial film but we feel that it is important that all sides of the debate are aired. If one of the contributors has concerns about his contribution we will look into that."

Any complaint would provoke a crisis at Channel 4, now recovering from the Jade Goody Big Brother storm. It had to make a rare public apology after the Independent Television Commission convicted previous programmes on environmental issues by the same film-maker, Martin Durkin, of similar offences - and is already facing questions on why it accepted another programme from him.

The commission found that the editing of interviews with four contributors to a series called Against Nature had "distorted or misrepresented their known views".

Professor Wunsch said: "I am angry because they completely misrepresented me. My views were distorted by the context in which they placed them. I was misled as to what it was going to be about. I was told about six months ago that this was to be a programme about how complicated it is to understand what is going on. If they had told me even the title of the programme, I would have absolutely refused to be on it. I am the one who has been swindled."

When told what the commission had found, he said: "That is what happened to me." He said he believes it is "an almost inescapable conclusion" that "if man adds excess CO2 to the atmosphere, the climate will warm".

He went on: "The movie was terrible propaganda. It is characteristic of propaganda that you take an area where there is legitimate dispute and you claim straight out that people who disagree with you are swindlers. That is what the film does in any area where some things are subject to argument."

Mr Durkin last night said that Professor Wunsch was "most certainly not duped into appearing into the programme" and that it "had not in any way misrepresented what he said".

Before the programme was shown, the IoS asked Channel 4 why it had commissioned another film from Mr Durkin and, further, whether it was making any special checks on its accuracy.

A spokesman said the programme made by Mr Durkin for which it had had to apologise was a decade old, adding: "We treat Martin as any other film-maker."

* David Cameron will tomorrow unveil three schemes to tax air travel in order to combat global warming. He is to consult on whether to impose VAT or fuel duty on domestic flights, institute a flight tax targeted at the most polluting engines, or to set up a "green miles scheme" to tax frequent flyers at a higher rate. The revenue raised would be used for tax cuts to help families.

The cold, hard facts about global warming

What do most scientists believe caused global warming?

The vast majority are convinced it is human emissions of carbon dioxide. It was established scientifically 180 years ago - and has never been seriously disputed - that natural levels of the gas given off by decaying vegetation and the oceans help to keep the Earth warm; without it, and other natural greenhouse gases, the planet would be some 20C colder and we would freeze. Adding even the so far relatively small amounts from human activities makes us warmer.

Has the world warmed before?

Yes, and big warmings over prehistoric times were not started by increasing CO2 levels; changes in solar activity are more likely. Levels of the gas started rising some 800 years into the warming, but then probably reinforced it, making it bigger and longer. Temperature and CO2 are interdependent; when one goes up the other follows. This time it is different because vast amounts of the gas are being artificially put into the atmosphere by humans.

What about more recent history?

There was a warm period in Europe in the Middle Ages, again probably caused by solar activity, but it does not seem to have been a worldwide phenomenon, although records are scanty.

So is the sun responsible now?

Some sceptics say so and probably it played the major role until quite recently. But over the past three decades, solar activity has scarcely risen, while temperatures have shot up - a fact disguised in the film. What has gone up is CO2 and even top sceptic Nigel Lawson admits it is "highly likely"
e have guided missiles and misguided men.

Offline Alan

  • The Newshound
  • Cast Of Thousands
  • ******
  • Posts: 4551
    • View Profile
Oi!
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2007, 11:00:28 PM »
Oi Mrs F I'M the Newshound!!

(Thanks for posting though that was really interesting!)

Alan

Offline Uli

  • Moderator
  • The Servant
  • *****
  • Posts: 9770
    • View Profile
Re: Climate Change and CO2?
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2007, 08:56:14 AM »
Yeah Alan, it was slightly confusing to see it wasn't posted by you.  ;)
Thanks Mrs F.!  :)
Just around the corner and miles away...

Offline Tj

  • Moderator
  • The Servant
  • *****
  • Posts: 14234
    • View Profile
    • True  Results - People Change for Good
    • Email
Re: Climate Change and CO2?
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2007, 02:32:33 PM »
I think it was Alan in drag.

That article helped a lot Mrs F. I'm glad I missed it now.
"Deep inside you know it's right to lean towards the light"

Tj Sundown
Leaning towards the Starlight

Offline abused and confused

  • The Impossible Person
  • Cast Of Thousands
  • ******
  • Posts: 1345
    • View Profile
Re: Climate Change and CO2?
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2007, 03:46:41 PM »
heeheee. and i know one thing. we will all have to pay more taxes for supposedly going green.
this weeks fools
tony blair riding an bio fuel bus.and gordon brown on the tube (surrounded my mi6 )
and "call me dave" cameron  planting a tree wearing ehtical trainers..... awwwwww anyone smell a election coming soon?   ;D ;D ;D
ts not the end but,the BEGINNING.

Offline Mrs Fleagle

  • Moderator
  • Cast Of Thousands
  • *****
  • Posts: 1684
    • MSN Messenger - aliensathome@hotmail.com
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Climate Change and CO2?
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2007, 10:20:54 PM »
Quote
anyone smell a election coming soon?

Oh Marcus you've spoilt it now I thought the party leaders were being sincere with their environmental concerns  :o  :o

The Kyoto agreement came into being in the 1990's, there's Greenpeace, Friends of the Earth the Green Party and a whole lot of other environmentaly aware groups that have been around for years, so why are these politicians so suddenly aware now  :-\

Mrs Fleagle  ::)
e have guided missiles and misguided men.

Offline Tj

  • Moderator
  • The Servant
  • *****
  • Posts: 14234
    • View Profile
    • True  Results - People Change for Good
    • Email
Re: Climate Change and CO2?
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2007, 05:05:55 PM »
At least they are focusing on something they should focus on. Whatever their reason for doing so. :)

"Deep inside you know it's right to lean towards the light"

Tj Sundown
Leaning towards the Starlight

Offline Uli

  • Moderator
  • The Servant
  • *****
  • Posts: 9770
    • View Profile
Re: Climate Change and CO2?
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2007, 05:50:56 PM »
Yeah, and in a few years you can sing "You saved the climate, then ruined it, ruined it..."
 ::)
Just around the corner and miles away...

Offline Tj

  • Moderator
  • The Servant
  • *****
  • Posts: 14234
    • View Profile
    • True  Results - People Change for Good
    • Email
Re: Climate Change and CO2?
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2007, 06:44:37 PM »
Just when we are all looking forward to loosing Blair, we find out Brown is a Stallin clone.

Great. ::) ;D
"Deep inside you know it's right to lean towards the light"

Tj Sundown
Leaning towards the Starlight

Offline Alan

  • The Newshound
  • Cast Of Thousands
  • ******
  • Posts: 4551
    • View Profile
Re: Climate Change and CO2?
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2007, 06:46:22 PM »
Brown looks worse to me - much worse!

Alan

Offline Uli

  • Moderator
  • The Servant
  • *****
  • Posts: 9770
    • View Profile
Re: Climate Change and CO2?
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2007, 08:45:01 AM »
Stalin killed loads of people by sending them to Sibiria...  :(
I do hope Brown wouldn't do that.  :-\
Just around the corner and miles away...